Token change Proposal

Forum Monkey Gender: Age: 20 Joined: 21 Apr 2007

Adonis wrote:

Pandora wrote:

Adonis wrote:

Pandora wrote:

I think the blackguards should get more ac/ab bonuses and less damage since they have sneak attacks. Take 12 paladin/3 rogue/25 blackguard for example. Add the damage from 10d6 sneaks, 2d6 x 2 scimitar, divine favor, +5 enhancement and divine might on a character that is susceptible to your sneaks and you've got 30 (sneaks) + 12 (weapon) + 4 (DF) + 8 (DM - or more depending on charisma) + 3 (scimitar's natural 1d6), + 16 (str bonus - at least) + 8 (BG neg damage for 25 levels) + 5 (weapon enhancement) and you've got 86 damage *on average* not figuring in bard song damages, damage vulnerabilities, crits or damage from overwhelming (if taken). You're looking at realistic damage of well above 100 per hit with a scimitar on a character susceptible to your sneaks, but on the other hand it's nice to have extra damage vs pale masters or players you can't flank/KD. Plus, I think it'd overpower players who will make 9 paladin/6 monk/25 blackguard finesse based. Or 9/9/22. Well, you get my point.

well I didn't see a need for BG to get any ac bonuse because of DS and it would make monks or finessable builds too strong with the class. Also the damage is fairly easy to block being negative.

True, but I still think the damage is too high.

toned it down for ya a bit. thought seriously about suggesting BG get 2xclass lvl in taunt skill but I can see how OP a trashtalk boost is on the server.

I wouldn't say it's too OP. I mean, hardly any one takes concentration, but I don't think taunt is great unless you're immune to crits. So, a slight boost wouldn't be a bad idea.

All-round Lunatic Joined: 18 Dec 2005

Pandora wrote:

I wouldn't say it's too OP. I mean, hardly any one takes concentration, but I don't think taunt is great unless you're immune to crits. So, a slight boost wouldn't be a bad idea.

You can taunt/kit while in IE, still net loss of ~7 AC (depends on build) though.

Forum Monkey Gender: Age: 20 Joined: 21 Apr 2007

flel wrote:

Pandora wrote:

I wouldn't say it's too OP. I mean, hardly any one takes concentration, but I don't think taunt is great unless you're immune to crits. So, a slight boost wouldn't be a bad idea.

You can taunt/kit while in IE, still net loss of ~7 AC (depends on build) though.

True, but I've only seen a few bard builds that even take IE and if they do they're pale master already. Most melee builds don't have the space for IE unless they're fighter or CoT. Not to mention when people are taunted they usually run around and wait for it to wear off.

Lord of the Posts Gender: Age: 27 Joined: 21 Jan 2007

reason why I did'nt propse it was it would be OP with pf unless BG was removed from pf list(I am fully in favor of)

Harmless Joined: 06 Apr 2008

The rare vulnerabilities need removing from DD they are just ridiculous. Most players have weps with rare damages and the whole point of a DD is to have damage reduction and yet most build now do double damage to them.

Toning down/removing the elemental resistances and removeing the vulnerabilties would be a good balance.

Lord of the Posts Gender: Age: 27 Joined: 21 Jan 2007

Rauool wrote:

The rare vulnerabilities need removing from DD they are just ridiculous. Most players have weps with rare damages and the whole point of a DD is to have damage reduction and yet most build now do double damage to them.

Toning down/removing the elemental resistances and removeing the vulnerabilties would be a good balance.

I did both in my initial proposal. Do you think the ele resist I have summited here is to much now?

Harmless Joined: 06 Apr 2008

I think those changes would be ideal

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:48 am

I think what bhaal said is also a good idea to add more class combinations - make a higher bonus at level 10-15 then another even higher at 25-30, so there is actually some point in doing combos with other classes.

Lord of the Posts Gender: Age: 27 Joined: 21 Jan 2007

Casas wrote:

I think what bhaal said is also a good idea to add more class combinations - make a higher bonus at level 10-15 then another even higher at 25-30, so there is actually some point in doing combos with other classes.

actually you suggested it earlier in the thread. The problem is that it would be well overpowered if bigger bonuses were given at lower class lvls as the bonuses between classes stack. If you are implying using more than one class and dependant lvls for some type of unique bonus....yeah thats script intense but doable. Pretty much much be PoA's pseudo classes and I don't think Dex needs to be more like another server, but more like Dex.

Bhaal and pretty much everyone agrees they really don't like anything resembling pure classes. The bonuses I proposed aren't sufficiant enough to make a pure class of any type viable for pvp. What I thought of was supplementing the least used classes to make them more viable in combinations thus increase build variety, but I left the door open for anyone who actually wants to make a crappy x/x/30 anything to have that freedom.

It only stands to reason that any skill in a calss and bonuses would increase by lvl so a 30lvl should have more benifits than a 20lvl, however they sacrifice for those benifits. There is no reason to make a pure of these types they would get wtfpnts in a heartbeat, but there is no reason to tell someone they can't do it.

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:28 am

Im loving the discussion here. A lot of great stuff is being talked about. My only things i see....should assasin really get undispellable II and extra concealment....if you are fighting something that couldnt get ts buff or doesnt have tts (alot of assassins are sd) then that would make it EXTREMELY powerful.

A second thing would anyone really be against me working with the bonuses (whether reducing them or keeping them the same) but trying to get rid of all of the near pures or pures that are running around with the token right now. I completely agree that the only pures should be druid/sorc/wiz and at times i would consider cleric but that hasnt been talked about for a looonggg time.

This poll has been up a couple days now so the vote is where it is. These changes will be applied. but i need to know that stuff on assassin and on pures thoughts...

thanks guys
amazing job coming up with this stuff

Seraphim.

OOO on RDD on this thing it doesnt say anything about the feats. Am I to assume they should be removed?

Average Gender: Age: 79 Joined: 29 Dec 2005 Location: US

SeraphimDeX1DEV wrote:

These changes will be applied.

Don't put these in yet sera, still needs balancing (I think some are underpowered).

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:37 am

then offer the suggestions cuz i am working on rdd as it is and want to do it all at once.

Mostly Harmless Joined: 18 Dec 2007

is bg summon hardcoded?
if not (im prob gonna be flamed for this) why not give it the balor summon when they have epic fiend?
maybe put in formula based on a skill like suggested 30bg +max ranks +sf/esf should get a named balor and decreasing from there

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:29 pm

Phenix Asher wrote:

is bg summon hardcoded?
if not (im prob gonna be flamed for this) why not give it the balor summon when they have epic fiend?
maybe put in formula based on a skill like suggested 30bg +max ranks +sf/esf should get a named balor and decreasing from there

lol!!11

Squire Gender: Joined: 18 Feb 2006

i think a pure cleric would be cool on here,

iv'e never seen a pure cleric on dex, would be a nice change