Something about expose weakness feat

Mostly Harmless Gender: Age: 31 Joined: 04 Aug 2007

I tested it on a ranged weapon but it doesn't work.. So is it a bug or it is for melee weapon ONLY?

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:24 pm

Please review this list...

http://www.dungeoneternal.com/phpBB2/ftopic7231.php

It is known, but have not researched this issue much. ( Need to verify it is not how it is supposed to work and that the manual/description is wrong, and verify it in game with an assortment of weapons, like shortbow, sling, longbow, crossbow, darts, shurikens, or perhaps it does not work with other melee weapons as well -- this can narrow down the issue by determining exactly which weapons it affects )

Mostly Harmless Gender: Age: 31 Joined: 04 Aug 2007

OMG.... the bug list is so long... i nearly fainted Mad

I making archers and i tested both short and long bow on the test server. Both are confirmed not working.

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:06 am

Yeah it is long, 67+ in total, but look at how many are brown now. That means they are fixed, or fixed in a week or two when 1.12 comes out. Many of these are NWN1 bugs, and many of them obsidian did not know about before this list. We have a person assigned to review these in a private forum, who works in the QA department of obsidian, and he comes in every once in a while and starts asking questions about one. I think he does it in between other assignments, but quite a few issues are definitely on their rader.

If you are testing it out, you probably need to just buy the various weapons, or do you need a focus or somesuch in each one you do? Not sure, i have not researched it very well yet. It might be how it's supposed to be, and they folks who wrote the description screwed up.

But these are good things to know up front, soas to allow you to avoid issues. I'm trying to figure out ways to script fixes for some of these issues in the meantime until obsidian can fix them.

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:11 am

So far expose only works on meelee weapons. I 've tested all the range weapons and it does'nt take effect even tho I see the "Expose Weakness: HIT" They dont lose the 3 ac either

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:27 am

Which ones did you test, just to be sure and it's how i write up issues -- i don't trust all as i've found important details in an obscure usage that's helped me get the root cause of the issue.

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:12 am

Bows, Thrown axes, Darts and shurikens.

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:34 pm

I'm quite sure Expose Weakness is intended to work with ranged weapons.
When using the feat with a ranged weapon, all the animations fire correctly and it seems to work, just no effect actually takes place.

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:09 pm

I'd need corroboration from the SRD, or on the WOTC forums. I agree it's most likely a bug, but without being thorough it's not going to get addressed.

Anyone try it with a sling, crossbow?

Dungeon Master (NWN 2) Gender: Age: 27 Joined: 10 Apr 2007

I'd encourage anyone with concerns like these (where implementation of a feat or spell is unclear or debatable) to:

reference SRD
http://www.d20srd.org/

if it seems that the game is not applying the feature as intended, then:
proceed to NWN2Wiki
http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

look up the particular (feat or spell) and post your proposal there, in hopes of it generating a discussion in the public eye.

Then finally, throw the link back into this (or otehr related DEX thread) so that Pain or myself know its been done, and we can reference it to post a report to OEI.

This save us significant leg-work, but also, other players, community wide, will eventually contribute (or even just multiple players from DEX) publicly, and gives us something to reference within our within our bug reports to OEI. The more participation we provide there, the more it will encourage others from other game worlds to participate, and thereby increase the leverage we would gain when we reference that wiki page in our reports we provide to OEI. Because issues would now be exposed to the entire DEX2 community, they'd be more motivated to resolve the matter.

EDIT:
I was just getting started on this one, intending to do all the investigation, resulting post in Wiki, and then provide the links to the particular (page I referenced in SRD) and (post I would have written in NWN2Wiki) within this post, to serve as an example of what I'm suggesting.

But, I was unable to find Expose Weakness at this SRD. Then I did a google and noticed there may be many SRD sites, so Pain, can you recommend which SRD site is the most genuine? Thanks

EDIT 2:
Heres the link to the article page for Expose Weakness. Notice the three tabs, article, discussion, and edit:
http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Expose_Weakness

Here is the Discussion page; There was no discussion there yet, so I initiated one:
http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Expose_Weakness
Now will check back in a week to see if there were any comments form others in the community. Might learn something new form them, there may be some in disagreement, though they should provide a reference if they do, and more likely, if someone does respond, it will be in agreement.
Note: to add comments to the discussion there, click on the edit tab, (I think)

From that point, we'll have something to support the bug report to OEI.

Finally, here is a good example on the subject of Mind Blank:
http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Mind_Blank

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:26 am

Those discussion pages on the Wiki very rarely get used - most players don't even look at them.
It is a very very bad forum to use if you plan on getting any real discussion going as it tends to take several months for anyone to make any kind of response.

If you try to start any discussions there it will be entirely counterproductive. The seemingly complete lack of interest will put it right on the bottom of the Dev's to do list.

EDIT:
About the expose weakness thing, isn't that something each server could fix pretty easily on their own? I mean it is working perfectly except for the fact that it isn't applying any of it's penalties - I know literally nothing at all about scripting but just adding those penalties to it's script doesn't sound like it would be an overly difficult task to the experienced.
Maybe that is why it seems to be considered low priority?

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:25 am

The amount of negative vibe from you folks is incredible.

Won't
Can't
Doesn't

It's all folks seem to give as reasons for anything. With an attitude like that, all you get is results like that.

It's really simple, you get out of life what you put into it. Each persons energy can only go so far, and if the players want the dev staff to do it all, they are going to end up with devs with no energy left.

Here are some facts:

Numerous folks whined about bugs and the devs said it would be a good idea for the players to make a list of all the bugs. It never happened, mainly because it was assumed nothing would be done with it. I've made a list and something has happened with it. We have the bugs, all 67 of them in a private forum just for this purpose, with programmers posting comments and questions. We also have Rob thanking us for contributions to the 1.12 patch.
I declared war on obsidian, we made a lot of noise, Obsidian responded by visiting our forums and asking us what are our concerns. This is not happening on other PW's as far as i know, except for the one Rob plays on. The issues we brought up are being fixed.
Folks complain of crashing, every crash results in a log. From the number of crash logs in the forums here the crashing must have been fixed. Obsidian is trying to trace down the root cause, and they need the communities help. http://www.dungeoneternal.com/phpBB2/ftopic7332.php
The PW admins have started working together and communicating. I've set up a wiki area for the combined knowledge on how to run PW's that is benefiting all PW's. http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/PW_Admin_Roundtable_Library Our lag prevention thread works.

Folks who beleive in "can't", get exactly what they beleive and do not have a chance. Folks who try might only have a chance if they are lucky, but they do better than those who never even try. I beleive that what i've done since christmas was beleived impossible when i started, i was told it would not work, but that is not true. These are the results of disregarding "can't" ->

Quote:

1.12 Patch Goals (Feb 1, 2008)

Items in green have passed the first phase of testing.
Eliminate the errors caused by transitioning with familiars summoned.
Fix the issue where the Use Magic Device skill takes priority over caster levels. (Fixed as of 2/1)
Allow Warlocks to be able to take crafting feats. (Fixed as of 1/28)
Eliminate area transition crashes.
Fix the issue where swapping spells on level-up makes characters invalid. (Fixed as of 1/11).
Update the Dedicated Server Creator to install NX1 files and model directories. (Fixed as of 2/1)
Provide more detail in the Multiplayer "missing file" error message.
Eliminate the item identification price discrepancies between the toolset and the price displayed in-game. (Fixed as of 1/11).
Fix 75 spells. - May move to next patch as we may need to include all spell fixes at once.
Make appropriate spells able to be scribed to a scroll. (Arcane spells complete)
Allow Armorrulestats.2da to be readable from hak pack in-game. (fixed as of 1/28)
Allow dieties.2da to be readable from hak pack in-game. (fixed as of 2/1)
Fix issues with Invisibility.
Bind the player list to the P key.
Implement the UI feature to change portraits in-game.(Implemented as of 1/11).
Implement multi-server portal support.
Increase the dedicated server player limit to 120. (Fixed as of 1/11 - Player limit will be 96).
Natural AC is not working properly (Fixed as of 1/28).
Losing points in UMD can cause items to be destroyed. - 80% Complete
Spellcasting classes not adding together in regards to prerequisites for feats and epic spells.
Non-MoTB players can see the low-light vision effect around other players (Added to the patch).
Fix the issue where splitting dropped items can cause crashes (Fixed as of 2/1).

which resulted in this post

http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=617629&forum=109

and as for 1.13 and 1.14 this is their game plan

Quote:

Posted 02/04/08 22:01 (GMT) by Rob McGinnis

Off the top of my head, here are some goals from our next three patches:

Eliminate transition crashes.
Add a checkbox to the dedicated server to disallow the override folder.
Allow Haks to load before character generation.
Integrate the DM's Player List with the Chooser.
Implement Multi-Server/Portal Support.
Allow DMs to interact with player inventory
Integrated Content/PWC Autodownloader
Implement stealth animations for player races
Implement numerous spell fixes

It's important to recognize that these are goals and not set in stone - nor is it an exhaustive list of our goals. Technical issues, contract issues and higher priority bugs can change this.

Now i know how to make things happen, and DM Hatred is correct. The issues in my bug list are not scripting issues, if they are i'd just do the script changes to fix the problem. If you want to bring up the issue in the NWN2 forums, go for it. I'm not sure how good a place the wiki is for things like this, but DM Hatred is correct that the issues the community is loud about are the ones that get taken care of. Just remember it is one issue amoung 67 though, don't expect them to drop everything to deal with it until after 1.13, and it helps to cite the SRD or players handbook or where ever it's PNP source is to ensure it is not a documentation bug.

And DM Hatred, i use http://www.d20srd.org/, but all the ones you see online are correct and the same. The actual SRD is a bunch of RTF files you can download, so all of the ones you find are by third parties, just make sure they say 3.5 on the front page and they are locked. The one i use actually is updated to have all the addendums incorporated into it. If you have books, please cite the SRD as i don't have any official rule books.

Also if you post a question in these forums -> http://forums.gleemax.com/forumdisplay.php?f=8 and if you get a consensus among those who respond, you can take the response as an official ruling as there will be plenty of rules lawyers to help you.

Each bug to get them to work on it requires

SRD citation or other support that behavior is not correct, if it is not obvious. This bug is not obviously wrong.
Double check the nwn2wiki article about it. (Make sure it is not intentional)
Steps to reproduce the problem, and reproduce in a vanila game if possible.
Listing the exact causes of the problem, in case of "All" list what all is. ( for example the cleric domains bypassing mantles is not "All" and only affects certain spells. )
Testing of similar abilities, and the like. If it affects wizards, try it with a sorceror, if it affects bows, try it with crossbows. (For example Str bonus works on certain thrown weapons but not others.)
Simple steps to reproduce the problem, in 123 type fashion.
Verification of the issue by a DM, or respected non-noob player, and screen shots showing rolls if any.
Posting in my bug list thread ( this issue is already there )
Post in NWN2 forums, and discussion of the issue, and a chance for the community to provide a fix or a way to mitigate the issue. Keep it factual, and don't expect immediate results, there are other issues such as 1.12 and 1.13 to happen first, as well as the 67 other bugs in my list. Use any feedback or more information, as well as workarounds to add to the final bug report. Sometimes someone will even post a completed script that fixes the issue.
Posting a detailed description in the private forum obsidian set up for this. This will include links to the NWN2 post, the post in the private DM section tracking the issue here, and the thread on our forums tracking the issue.

This allows the QA department at obsidian to reproduce the bug and detail it in much more detail than i am above, and put it in a list for eventual working on by a programmer. Yes it is involved, and generally it takes me a few days to run down everything involved in a bug. Currently i am busy scripting, programming, and hopefully getting a castle moving.

As it is it's listed as an issue, and this list has been reviewed by obsidian, but it is not detailed enough for them to properly put it in their official bug list. ( They tend to focus on the clearly defined bugs before the vague ones for some reason )

If you want to help in the detailing portion thereof, and put some posts on the NWN2 forums - there is enough dex players to make it seem like any issue brought up is a major issue. Just be sure to not be a jerk, and just state the facts, be respectful of the devs as if you are asking for a favor. They are more likely to fix our issues if they actually like us. As it is i am not spending all my energy on bugs and exploits, i'd much prefer keeping some forward momentum going. This entire discussion needs to be repeated on the NWN2 forums for each and every bug.

Below Average Joined: 28 Nov 2006

Hurray ! hurray ! hurraY! lets put a end to bugas!