Token change Proposal

Above Average Gender: Age: 27 Joined: 21 Jan 2007

-Assassin-
10: +1 AB
15: +1 AB
20: +1 AB
25: +1 AB
30: +2 AB

make assasin Imporved Invisibility undispellable and increase conceal 5% every 5 lvls over 10
supply special venom creators to assassins that have a dc=10+ 1/2char lvl+1/2 assassing class lvl

-Blackguard-
10: +1 AB / +1d4 neg damage
15: +1 AB / +1d6 neg damage(replace prior)
20: +1 AB / +1d8 neg damage(replace prior)
25: +2 AB / +2d4 neg damage(replace prior)
30: +2 AB / +2d6 neg damage(replace prior)

Improve greatly thier summons especially epic fiend. Formula should be based on BG class lvls perhaps taking in a class skill like lore as well as sf and esf lore to produce a similar formula to other class summons.

-Dwarwen Defender-
10: +1 AB / +50 HP /
15: +1 AB / +1 AC / +50 HP / 10/- Elemental Resist /
20: +1 AB / +1 AC / +50 HP / 25/- Elemental Resist(replace prior)
25: +1 AB / +1 AC / +100 HP / 35/- Elemental Resist(replace prior)
30: +2 AB / +2 AC / +200 HP / 50/- Elemental Resist (replace prior)

-Ranger-
8: +1 AC /+1spot,h,ms
16: +1 AB /+1AC / +1 universal saves /+1spot,h,ms
24: +1 AB /+1 AC / +1 universal saves /+2spot,h,ms
32: +2 AB /+2 AC / +2 universal saves /+2spot,h,ms
40: +3 AB /+3 AC / +3 universal saves /+4spot,h,ms

add additional 1d6 physical damage per 3 favored enemy feats when accompanied by bane of enemies feat. Make Ranger's companions usefull.

-Red Dragon Diciple-
15: +1 AB / +1AC/ +2disc
20: +1 AB / +1AC/ +2disc /+1 fort save
25: +2 AB / +2AC/ +2disc /+1 fort save
30: +2 AB / +2AC/ +4disc /+2 fort save

-Weapon Master-
15: +1 AC / +1 Reflex / +2 Disc / 1d6 slashing damage
20: +1 AC / +1 Reflex / +2 Disc / 1d12 slashing damage(replace prior)
25: +1 AC / +2 Reflex / +3 Disc / 2d8 slashing damage(replace prior)
30: +2 AC / +2 Reflex / +4 Disc / 2d12 slashing damage(replace prior)

Harmless Joined: 06 Apr 2008

I think that these changes are much more balanced than the recent additions. After fighting tiana's weapon master with 72ab and 80 ac :O they were just far too uber.

Harmless Joined: 18 Dec 2007

wm need to get fort instead of reflex or they end up with about 40 fort which is simply not usable

Above Average Age: 26 Joined: 19 Feb 2006

ranger shouldnt get anything before lvl 15 remeber most ranger builds will incorporate some kind of mnk

and where is Shadow dancer ?

Above Average Gender: Age: 27 Joined: 21 Jan 2007

vendetta wrote:

ranger shouldnt get anything before lvl 15 remeber most ranger builds will incorporate some kind of mnk

and where is Shadow dancer ?

Currently Rangers do get bonuses before lvl15 . R/M/X builds are virtually nonexistant on the mod unles they are taking 1 lvl monk for wis ac bonus. Rangers just dont fit into the speedracer monk formula. There is no changes here that would make Ranger more appealing to monks that ohh lets say pally for example as half the monks on the server are pally/monk/rouges.

I left out SD from the proposal because I see no need to empower or change it's current bonuses in anyway. There is absolutely no use for SD beyond lvl5. That and I just plain forgot about them getting class token bonuses. Razz

Above Average Gender: Age: 27 Joined: 21 Jan 2007

Phenix Asher wrote:

wm need to get fort instead of reflex or they end up with about 40 fort which is simply not usable

I use and example of a 10/30 WM to calculate fort with a base con of 10.

3 base save from 10 WM preepic.
+7 base save from 10 Fighter Preepic.
+10 epic lvls saves bonuses
+6 con giving a base con lvl of 10
+20magical saves cap(the token would apply to this as well)

this puts you at 46+grt fort feat+epic fort feat puts you at 52 with a 10base con.

The token wouldn't give the character any bonus to fort beyond the cap. At the most a builder would get is the benifit of Having one more piece of equipment to place disc on, but why do that when I proposed the class get some hefty chunks of disc.

Lord of the Posts Gender: Age: 20 Joined: 21 Apr 2007

I think the blackguards should get more ac/ab bonuses and less damage since they have sneak attacks. Take 12 paladin/3 rogue/25 blackguard for example. Add the damage from 10d6 sneaks, 2d6 x 2 scimitar, divine favor, +5 enhancement and divine might on a character that is susceptible to your sneaks and you've got 30 (sneaks) + 12 (weapon) + 4 (DF) + 8 (DM - or more depending on charisma) + 3 (scimitar's natural 1d6), + 16 (str bonus - at least) + 8 (BG neg damage for 25 levels) + 5 (weapon enhancement) and you've got 86 damage *on average* not figuring in bard song damages, damage vulnerabilities, crits or damage from overwhelming (if taken). You're looking at realistic damage of well above 100 per hit with a scimitar on a character susceptible to your sneaks, but on the other hand it's nice to have extra damage vs pale masters or players you can't flank/KD. Plus, I think it'd overpower players who will make 9 paladin/6 monk/25 blackguard finesse based. Or 9/9/22. Well, you get my point.

Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:17 pm

Should make bg peak at lvl 20-22...im tired of all this pure nonsense.

Lord of the Posts Gender: Age: 20 Joined: 21 Apr 2007

bhaal wrote:

Should make bg peak at lvl 20-22...im tired of all this pure nonsense.

Same. Casters are the only classes that make any sense to be "pure" in PvP. The rest have no reason to be outside role playing parameters.

Above Average Gender: Age: 27 Joined: 21 Jan 2007

Pandora wrote:

I think the blackguards should get more ac/ab bonuses and less damage since they have sneak attacks. Take 12 paladin/3 rogue/25 blackguard for example. Add the damage from 10d6 sneaks, 2d6 x 2 scimitar, divine favor, +5 enhancement and divine might on a character that is susceptible to your sneaks and you've got 30 (sneaks) + 12 (weapon) + 4 (DF) + 8 (DM - or more depending on charisma) + 3 (scimitar's natural 1d6), + 16 (str bonus - at least) + 8 (BG neg damage for 25 levels) + 5 (weapon enhancement) and you've got 86 damage *on average* not figuring in bard song damages, damage vulnerabilities, crits or damage from overwhelming (if taken). You're looking at realistic damage of well above 100 per hit with a scimitar on a character susceptible to your sneaks, but on the other hand it's nice to have extra damage vs pale masters or players you can't flank/KD. Plus, I think it'd overpower players who will make 9 paladin/6 monk/25 blackguard finesse based. Or 9/9/22. Well, you get my point.

well I didn't see a need for BG to get any ac bonuse because of DS and it would make monks or finessable builds too strong with the class. Also the damage is fairly easy to block being negative.

Above Average Gender: Age: 27 Joined: 21 Jan 2007

Pandora wrote:

bhaal wrote:

Should make bg peak at lvl 20-22...im tired of all this pure nonsense.

Same. Casters are the only classes that make any sense to be "pure" in PvP. The rest have no reason to be outside role playing parameters.

agreed, but If someone wants to make a poop build. I'm not going to try and stop them Razz

Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:48 am

How about making certain class tokens have different effects depending on the other classes you have as it is this whole class token thing is leaning towards the pure class idea since the best bonuses need large ammounts of the same class, i know this is quite alot of work yeah.

Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:51 am

Didn't I just say make adonis a dev or a DM? He's one perfect choice for it.

We need a dev/DM who knows what pvp is and what pvp means, and that's adonis.

Lord of the Posts Gender: Age: 20 Joined: 21 Apr 2007

Adonis wrote:

Pandora wrote:

I think the blackguards should get more ac/ab bonuses and less damage since they have sneak attacks. Take 12 paladin/3 rogue/25 blackguard for example. Add the damage from 10d6 sneaks, 2d6 x 2 scimitar, divine favor, +5 enhancement and divine might on a character that is susceptible to your sneaks and you've got 30 (sneaks) + 12 (weapon) + 4 (DF) + 8 (DM - or more depending on charisma) + 3 (scimitar's natural 1d6), + 16 (str bonus - at least) + 8 (BG neg damage for 25 levels) + 5 (weapon enhancement) and you've got 86 damage *on average* not figuring in bard song damages, damage vulnerabilities, crits or damage from overwhelming (if taken). You're looking at realistic damage of well above 100 per hit with a scimitar on a character susceptible to your sneaks, but on the other hand it's nice to have extra damage vs pale masters or players you can't flank/KD. Plus, I think it'd overpower players who will make 9 paladin/6 monk/25 blackguard finesse based. Or 9/9/22. Well, you get my point.

well I didn't see a need for BG to get any ac bonuse because of DS and it would make monks or finessable builds too strong with the class. Also the damage is fairly easy to block being negative.

True, but I still think the damage is too high.

Above Average Gender: Age: 27 Joined: 21 Jan 2007

Pandora wrote:

Adonis wrote:

Pandora wrote:

I think the blackguards should get more ac/ab bonuses and less damage since they have sneak attacks. Take 12 paladin/3 rogue/25 blackguard for example. Add the damage from 10d6 sneaks, 2d6 x 2 scimitar, divine favor, +5 enhancement and divine might on a character that is susceptible to your sneaks and you've got 30 (sneaks) + 12 (weapon) + 4 (DF) + 8 (DM - or more depending on charisma) + 3 (scimitar's natural 1d6), + 16 (str bonus - at least) + 8 (BG neg damage for 25 levels) + 5 (weapon enhancement) and you've got 86 damage *on average* not figuring in bard song damages, damage vulnerabilities, crits or damage from overwhelming (if taken). You're looking at realistic damage of well above 100 per hit with a scimitar on a character susceptible to your sneaks, but on the other hand it's nice to have extra damage vs pale masters or players you can't flank/KD. Plus, I think it'd overpower players who will make 9 paladin/6 monk/25 blackguard finesse based. Or 9/9/22. Well, you get my point.

well I didn't see a need for BG to get any ac bonuse because of DS and it would make monks or finessable builds too strong with the class. Also the damage is fairly easy to block being negative.

True, but I still think the damage is too high.

toned it down for ya a bit. thought seriously about suggesting BG get 2xclass lvl in taunt skill but I can see how OP a trashtalk boost is on the server.